THEOLOGICAL REBUTTAL

ITALIAN - FRENCH - ENGLISH - ARABIC


The proof showing that Allah does not exist

Allah was living on the water before Creation

Allah


Allah's life before the Creation
  

Koran describes where and how Allah lived before to create the world. Therefore, in this opening singularity, there were also "water and a throne" necessary to the Allah's life together with the future Creator. On this absurd incongruity, our survey unrolls, stopped from the exegesis of Koran.
  

     

The verse of the Koran: Sura XI,7
 

«He… created in six days, while before his throne was on the water»

Edited by M. M. Moreno, Ed. UTET, 1967.

Before creating the universe, Allah lived on the water and so here water existed, before than Creation. Actually, water formed one billions of years later than Big Bang and it could not exist before the origin of the universe. Not only. In the molecule of water there is a net of atoms, there is a large quantity and the energy, there are classical physic and mechanic quantities, so as consequence here there is nature. By the way, where there is water, there is life, so Allah patented his Genesis after that life existed here. In order to declare himself Omniscient, it is possible that Islamic Creator did not know him?
  

     

The verse in seven translations

We start comparing the text (Sura XI,7) with seven versions of Koran:
  

1. «…his throne was (the first of creation) established on waters»

Vincenzo Calza, 1847

2. «…while his throne hovered on the water»

 Alessandro Bausani, 1955

3. «…while before his throne was established on the water»

 Martino M. Moreno, 1967

4«…his throne, first of creation, was established on waters»

 Francesco Aniballi, 2002

5. «…while his throne was on the water»

 Gabriele Mandel, 2004

6«…well [it was] on the water of His Throne»

Hamza R. Piccardo, 2016

 

Il Corano, versione Vincenzo Calza, Console pontificio, traduzione dal francese

Il Corano M.M. Moreno UTET 1967 e Ed. Repubblica 2005

Il Corano M.M. Moreno UTET 1967 e Ed. Repubblica 2005

Il Corano versione Gabriele Mandel, 2004

Il Corano, versione Hamza R. Piccardo, 2016

Vincenzo Calza, 1847 
Translated from
the French

Alessandro Bausani 
Ed. Sansoni 1955

M. M. Moreno   
Ed. UTET 1967
Repubblica 2005

Francesco Aniballi 
Ed. Gangemi 2002

Gabriele Mandel 
Ed. UTET 2004

Hamza R. Piccardo
Ed. Newton 2016

  

7.


LITERAL TRANSLATION arabo italiano, L. Bonelli, 1979

LITERAL TRANSLATION,  Arabic-Italian
Luigi Bonelli, Ed. Hoepli, 1940
  
  He created the sky and the land, in six days, = while
  before it was on the throne established on the waters =

The literary translation is the pre-translation able to decode the meaning of sentences with a logical, syntactic and in time
EXAMINE

 


From the comparison, it emerges that some translators collocated water and throne during the Allah’s Creation and not before Creation: it is a central point of our adversary system. To dissolve this tangle, we are going to collect
"seven clues giving a proof" calling many others texts of Koran, as eye witnesses, Mohamed’s Sayings and some exegetic written texts composing the essential biography of Islam.
 



Water before Creation
  

The first proof is in Sunna, the most influential muslin activity after Koran, having the authenticable Mohamed’s Sayings.
In Bukari's hadith there is written:
«The Prophet said: "There was Allah and nothing else before Him and His Throne was over the water, and He then created the Heavens and the Earth"» (1) (Hadith: 'Imran ibn Husain, companion of the Prophet, Bukhari volume 9, book 93 n. 514 LINK). We find again the same inconsistency we left with: "there was nothing except Allah"; at the same time Allah sat on waters. So, now, we are interested in evidence after revelation, Prophet Mohamed reiterated water and the throne existed before Koranic Creation. It is a certified proof crossing out every uncertainty.

A second confirmation arrives from two authoritative Islamic theologians. When the sender of Allah was interviewed on the concerned koranic verse (XI,7), Tabari (838-923) and Ibn Kathir (1301-1373) refer to the fact that he said: «Before of creation, Allah was a hazy mass». (2) It is a declaration able to not leave some duties, on the contrary, it shows more exactly the task of water.

In addition, the contemporary exegesis accepted faithfully the answer of Allah's sender. Not by chance, to conciliate the work of Creator with the modern science, he associated the "nebulous mass" of Allah to anelusive "starting nebula" of Big Bang. However, nobody nebula had existed yet, and it could not exist too, before that Big Bang and the first gas masses formed millions of years after the expansion of universe. Therefore, the present exegesis falsified the astronomy meanwhile they did not deny Mohamed. In each case, we are at the third demonstration.

So, we are sure that is the "nebulous mass" really a cloud of water? To discharge the remaining doubts, we take back an explicative note treated by the most authoritative version of Koran between Italian muslins. Let's read it: «Allah is over each thing… and it was also over before that sky and land were created. At that time, his God was represented by the dominion of water son creation…» (3) It is in the Koran translated by Hamza R. Piccardo (islamic), inspected by muslins (UCOII) and chosen from Saudi Arabia for the Arabic-Italian edition of the Holy Book.
It is the fourth proof containing another proof. The author of the explicative note is one of translators collocating water and Allah's throne during the Creation while his opinion collocated him before Creation.
  
It is Him who created the sky and the land in six days well [it was] on waters… DURING
before that the sky and the earth were created. In that time … BEFORE


There is also a fifth declaration founded on the countercheck. So to say, nobody exegete interpreted water in a metaphoric sense and nobody theologian intended water in an allegoric sense. It is the declaration of proofs that it is really "wetting water". On the other hand, the same Koran tells us "The Allah's pure water" is the same water raining on the Earth (Sura 25,48). And if God's life is unchangeable, Allah lives on waters outside borders of the universe too (Hadith of Abu Huraira: «his throne is [still] on the water», Bukhari 9,93,508 LINK). There is a theological misery to be dismayed.


  



The task of water

So, it is legitimated to ask ourselves: why Allah lived in a cloud of water?

The set of pre-Creation appeared as a "dark endless of a wide area". This unconscious gloomy illustrated a chasm without ending (the "collapse in abyss" Sura 92,11) which was unimaginable to be suspended on the air freely, also for the Almighty. On the contrary, the watered cloudy permitted to Islamic God to float in the space, he was unaware of the Lenov future "spatial walk" (1965). It was suspended freely in the cosmically space, out of the orbiter. By the time, it is not impossible to count the proofs.
 

    cloud and throne of Allah


In each case, the binomial Allah-water was compatible with the science of the past because just at the XVIII century (Lavoisier), water was considered "indivisible" and for this reason, it was a "primordial and eternal element". It could coexist with Allah lightly, before of the Creation yet. Really, in the Koranit has not been written that water is eternal but its eternity is "written without write it" in the living together Allah-water. If Islamic God had repudiated the eternity of water, it would not have been possible the combination between eternity and temporality, nor the living together God-water. Therefore, the placetof eternity permitted to the water mass to be the floating support at the Allah's throne.
  



The throne before the Creation
  

Numerous verses of the Koran confirm the presence of the throne before Creation.
Having created the cosmos, Allah rose on the throne. So before he sat on the throne. (
7,54 - 10,3 - 13,2 - 20,5 - 25,59 - 32,4 - 57,4) In the Koran there is a precise reference to water to sustain the divine throne: "All that who sustain the Throne and all that who surrounds him, glorifies and praises their God…" (Sura 40,7). Allah does not understand what he says because he declares that his throne needs to be "sustained". To understand better, here in the pre-Creation, waters sustained the throne and after the Creation, angels surrounded the throne.

If the throne deserves supporting, it will mean that there is a weight of a body and the force of gravity will exercise on the mass. The weight excludes each abstractness of the divine polling station and it reveals its materiality when "there was nothing outside of Allah". As consequence, there was also the solid state and not only the liquid state. The astonishment continues.

  



The science of support
  

In front of the doubt of a "material and supported" throne, the theologian Ibn 'Abbs, Mohamed's cousin and Prophet's friend, supposed that in the throne there was "an Allah Science allegory" (4) The classical expedient to justify an incongruity. Really, Allah does not know either the elementary laws of physic.

The wise man believed that birds could not fly alone: "Who detains birds from dead body? They are not sustained than by the Pitiful." (Sura 67,19 and 16,79)  It is a thesis so funny that chickens are laughing too. Anymore, realizing the thought of Allah faithfully, today the airplanes fly because they are supported by the Supporter. But there's more. For the Koranic science nothing can stand in a vacuum. Water keeps Allah and Allah sustains birds and even the cosmos: "Surely Allah upholds the heavens and the earth lest they come to naught; and if they should come to naught, there Is none who can uphold them after Him" (Sura 35,41).
For this reason, it is said that the Supporter and the Holder of effort return between Allah's features (
Sura 51,58). However, in cases under examined, they are considered a disaster. From a side, Allah supports who must not be supported (birds, airplanes and cosmos) and Himself on the other hand. The Almighty is able to be free in the wide and he needs of water to sustain Throne.
It is reliable a divine science of an incapable?
Is it possible that a Creator does not know the Nature created by himself? Where is Allah Akbar?
 

birds supported by allah



The logic deduction
  

Before the ending of these summarized reflections, we add others two significant elements. Unlike water, the throne is not a chemical mixture but an artifact created by man after the pre-history. As consequence, the koranic Creation collocated a milliard of years after Big Bang (molecule of water) but it is dated few millenniums ago. In addition, the throne reveals a vertebrate God and not spiritual, being modeled on the human body. If it is true that divine spirit is without a form, for itself, there is no sense to sit or need of supports.

So, it is to ask: where is the supernatural God transcending limits of nature? Allah the nude does not contain a bit of superhuman. Without auto-referential features. Nothing of "Allah Akbar".

Now we can review the sums, having surpassed seven clues. Now, I have so the task to answer firsthand to a question expressed by Allah on his Creation: "The Compassionate... created without you saw one defeat in the Creation. You observe, you see some fissure?" (Sura 67,3 - 50,6)

Dear Allah, you ask here to anticipate your doubt. Therefore, your Omniscience did not deal with the scientific method. Hydrogen and oxygen - alive and well before the Creation - are silent witnesses of your "profane crack" and now they are chatting witnesses about the fact that Allah does not exist!
  




Survey on Bible
  

Before to examine the biblical Creation is appropriate to underline an analogy between the Koranic verse where we left from (11,7) and an Isaiah’s biblical verse (66,1): «So God says: "the sky is my throne"». In Hebraic, the world "sky" means, "place where waters are", so the effective Isaiah thought is: "on water, my throne is". An idea presented also on three Psalms (11,4 - 103,19 - 104,3). (5)
Despite the similitude between Bible and Koran (On waters is my throne - his throne was established on water), there was not an "integral copy and taste" because the context is different and the meaning of word "throne" too.

Allah declares in an explicit way to live on the water here before of Creation, while the fourth biblical verses refers to a successively Yahve's Creation. In addition, in Bible, the throne means a described object (to tower over - to reign), while in Koran it is a highly material object. Therefore, Mohamed changed the symbolism of throne in a materialism, to differentiate himself from Bible. Really, Allah confirmed the relationship between Koran and Bible. He considers one of His revelations among the first of five Bible books (Torah), for this reason he has the "right of copy and correction" in Genesis by Jahvè (Sura 5,44 - 3,3.48.50).
Regardless of these minutiae, the Yahve's spirit fluttered on waters before Genesis?


The second part will be published successively.

Dr. Alfredo Alì

Napoli, may 2017
confutazione@allahcreazione.it  (In Italian)
  


  Notes  
    

   
(1) Getting to Know Allah, Legacy Edition  
  


Hadith: 'Imran ibn Husayn, companion of the Prophet- Bukhari volume 9, book 93, n. 514


 


(2) Il Corano, Hamza R. Piccardo - Ed. Newton 2016 - page 193
  


«…well His Throne (was) on waters…»: classical announcers (Tabari XII. 4-5. Ibn KAthir II, 437) refer to when Allah’s sender (peace and benedictions on himself) was questioned about this expression and he answered: «Allah was a nebulous mass, before creation».


(3) Il Corano, Hamza R. Piccardo - Ed. Newton 2016 - page 194


Allah is over everything because he has all the space and all the time of creation and it was before that skies and the land were created too. In that time, His Lordship created on it was represented from the dominium of waters, of steams in that “nebulous-


(4) Il Corano, Hamza R. Piccardo - Ed. Newton 2016 - page 194


According to the «Throne», an Ibn ‘Abbas interpretation would be an allegory of Allah Science, where all is in himself, it sounds it could bear this interpretation.


 
 (5) Bible, Italian Episcopal Conference, 1974
 

  Salmo 11,4       il Signore ha il trono nei cieli… 
  Salmo 103,19   Il Signore ha stabilito nel cielo il suo trono…
  Salmo 104,3     costruisci sulle acque la tua dimora, fai delle nubi il tuo carro…

Psalm 11,4       God has the throne in the sky …
Psalm 103,19   God established his throne in the sky …
Psalm 104,3     you build your house on waters, do you do about clouds your wagon…

_______________________________________

 In Hebrew, the word sky means "place where the waters"
 Bible Vulgata, translated in Italian from Mons. Martin, 1778, in her note of Genesis 1,8